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The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

This is a podcast about the field of Behavior Analysis. Each episode will feature an interview with a Behavior Analyst where we discuss a specific topic in the field of Applied Behavior Analysis. Some of these topics include functional behavioral assessment, treating severe behavioral disorders such as aggression and self-injurious behavior, acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), behavioral ethics, autism treatment, parenting, and the history of Applied Behavior Analysis.
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The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
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Now displaying: 2022
Dec 28, 2022

It's that time of year again folks. If you're new to the show, every year, I get together with my friends from ABA Inside Track for a Year in Review show, and this year was no different. In this podcast, we went over a handful of happenings in the world of Applied Behavior Analysis. 

In this episode, we covered:

  • The changes in leadership of the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis and the Association for Professional Behavior Analysis.
  • What shows from each of our pods resonated with our respective audiences.
  • Whether West Coast or New England IPAs are best (c'mon, is this even worth talking about?), including an impromptu short history of American Craft Beer. 
  • Other questions from the audience.
  • The passings of Tameka Meadows, Beth Sulzer-Azaroff, David Jarmolowicz, and Dale Bretthower.

With regard to the latter, I would like to say that I wish we had more time to elaborate on the contributions of these behavior analysts. We were pressed for time, not only for recording, but also in terms of show preparation, and I apologize if that segment of the show fails to live up to the standards you've come to expect from Behavioral Observations. 

We also fielded a great question from long time listener, Penny Holloway. Again, time did not allow us to do her question justice, but if you listen to the very end of the show, I do my best to address it, and I hope you get a chance to check that out. 

Huge thanks again for the ABA Inside Track crew, along with Alan Haberman for being such great conversational partners. I look forward to sharing more fun discussions with you in 2023 and beyond!!!

Here are the links to some of the things we discussed:

Dec 21, 2022

If you're a long-time listener, you've likely heard me talk about the Verbal Behavior Conference at various points over the last few years. If you're not familiar with the event, it's a two-day workshop that my friends at the Central Texas Autism Center have been putting on for years. 

What you're about to hear is the panel discussion from the 2022 event, which was the first post-pandemic live event for the conference, which took place, as always, in Austin, Texas. 

This panel discussion included Kevin Luczynski, Sarah Lechago, Francesca Delgi Espinosa, Tamara Kasper, Mark Sundberg, David Palmer, David Roth, and Pat McGreevy. 

This particular panel discussion started off with going over some granular details about Joint Attention and Joint Control, but as panels often do, this one got a little more freewheeling as it went on. For example, there were some great discussions regarding assessing bilingual clients, the role of eye contact, core vs. fringe vocabulary, rule-governed behavior, and much more!

I had the honor to be invited to moderate this amazing lineup. These duties included asking my own questions, taking questions from the in-person crowd (and huge thanks to Kelle Rich for sprinting around the mic!), and monitoring the on-line chat to take questions from those participating at home. As such, there are some occasional long pauses here and there throughout the discussion, so please bear with that, as I think it will be worth your time. 

If an event like this sounds fun to you, you're in luck because the 2023 Verbal Behavior Conference is just around the corner. It's taking place on March 30th and 31st, as always, in Austin, Texas. However, if you can't be there in person, the Verbal Behavior Conference will be presented online via Behavior Live, and for what it's worth, they do a fantastic job doing this. Whether virtually or in person, I'd love to see you there. 

This year's event includes talks from Pat McGreevy, Troy Fry, Lina Slim, Andresa De Souza, Sarah Frampton, Einar Ingvarsson, and Samantha Bergman. Once again, I will be moderating the panel at the end of the first day. All in all, it's a really fun time. 

If you're listening to this and it's still 2022, early-bird pricing is still in effect, so if this all sounds fun to you, grab your ticket today and save some cash in the process. 

This podcast is brought to you by:

  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
  • Session 204 guest Rose Griffin's FREE masterclass, The Power of Joint Attention. In this 30 minute training you will learn how to use books in therapy so your students are running over to listen to you read. The course then moves onto using songs in therapy so that your students are eager to participate and play, so that your students are ready to engage with you every session. Rose shares 3 actionable tips that you can use in your next therapy session, and shares BONUS printiables that you can use and share with parents.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
Dec 2, 2022

I'm really excited to chat with Dr. Paulie Gavoni again on the podcast. As long time listeners know, he's been on the show many times, and always brings a down-to-earth, practical point of view to what we do as Behavior Analysts.

In preparation for a talk at the recent Hoosier Association for Behavior Analysis event, Paulie did a deep dive on characteristics of bad leadership. It went over very well, and we thought it would make for an informative podcast episode. And Paulie presents his findings in his own unique and fun manner. I won't spoil it here, so be sure to hear him go through it all.

I should also note that Paulie and I talk all the time and our banter may have drifted into what I'll refer to here as 'middle school language.' Nothing terribly profane mind you, but I did want to give a heads up because I know many of you listen to the podcast while ferrying your kids around.

On a different note, Paulie and I, along with our colleague Anika Costa, are working on a really fun project for behavioral professionals in public school settings. We are hoping to have it out in the first quarter of 2023, so stay tuned for that.

Here are the links:

This podcast is brought to you by:

  • The Empowering Parents with ACT course, from Praxis Continuing Education and Training. Taught by Dr. Lisa Coyne and Dr. Evelyn Gould, this course presents a powerful acceptance and commitment training-based approach to supporting parents and caregivers with evidenced-based interventions. Designed for anyone who works with caregivers and their families, including children with mental health issues, autism, physical or developmental differences, chronic health issues, and other challenges, this self-paced training will help you work with caregivers to help their families grow and thrive. To watch a free video lesson from Empowering Parents with ACT, go to: praxiscet.com/parents.
  • Session 204 guest Rose Griffin's FREE masterclass, The Power of Joint Attention. In this 30 minute training you will learn how to use books in therapy so your students are running over to listen to you read. The course then moves onto using songs in therapy so that your students are eager to participate and play, so that your students are ready to engage with you every session. Rose shares 3 actionable tips that you can use in your next therapy session, and shares BONUS printiables that you can use and share with parents.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
Nov 23, 2022

Editor's Note:

I generally publish three episodes a month, but I wanted to share this bonus, fourth episode with you as I know there will be a lot of people embarking on road trips in the coming days. As such, I’ve chosen one of my earliest interviews to re-release, and it’s my first interview with Dr. Pat Friman (originally released in August of 2016!?!?), who as many of you know, went on to appear in several more Behavioral Observations Episodes.

What I will say though is that if you’re listening to this re-release of Session 10 shortly after it is published, that there is a huge CEU sale going on right now. These huge discounts that are available now through November 27th. And if you’re catching this show after the sale is over, I usually have a few different discounts going so it’s worth checking out no matter when you hear this. 

And speaking of Pat Friman, three of his later appearances on the show are indeed eligible for CEUs, so if you enjoy his message and want to hear more of it, and earn CEUs along the way, then this sounds like a win-win.

In Session 10 of The Behavioral Observations Podcast, I speak with none other than Dr. Pat Friman. Pat is the Vice President of Behavioral Health Services at Boys Town as well as a Clinical Professor of Medicine in the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Nebraska School of Medicine.

In today's show, Pat tells the story of how he literally wandered into a career in Behavior Analysis as well as the remarkable story of how Boys Town was started and how it serves children and families today. We then talk about his point of view on functional assessment practices, how he interviews parents, his take on what we refer to as, "kids these days," and Behavior Analysts as parents. With regard to the latter, I accidentally broach some of my own parenting struggles, so you might have some fun at my expense (your welcome).

If you enjoyed the show, please share it with friends and colleagues!

Nov 18, 2022

In the 6th installment of the Apollo Case Study Series, I'm joined by my regular conversation partner, Dr. Jim Moore, along with Christina Nylander. Christina is a BCBA who works at Apollo's Lawrenceville, GA clinic.

In this episode, Christina opens up quite a bit and describes how she encountered Applied Behavior Analysis, her early experiences as an RBT, the mentoring and supervision she's received as a BCBA in the early stages of her career, the value of learning about typical child development, the successes she's had as a clinician, learning the PEAK curriculum, and much more. 

Christina quite vulnerably discussed juggling the immense challenges of being a working mother in our field as well. From sleep deprivation to feeling like one is never fully caught up... she candidly describes how she navigated that process. 

Throughout the podcast, Jim related Christina's points to Apollo's unique clinical and supervision models. If you are interested in learning more about what they do, you can find more information here

Here are some of the resources we discussed: 

In parting, I have two requests: 

First, if you have any questions about this episode or any other ACSS podcasts, I encourage you to hit Jim up on LinkedIn.... even if it is just to say hello. Second, please share this show with friends and colleagues. I think Christina's story is highly representative of many people in the field right now, and this podcast may be helpful to quite a few BCBAs out there. 

Nov 10, 2022

In Session 206, I spoke with Dr. Melissa Gonzalez, BCBA-D, about Pediatric Feeding Disorders, and what Applied Behavior Analysis can offer in this area. 

Melissa is the Clinical Therapy Director at the Siskin Children's Institute in Chattanooga, Tennessee, arriving there by way of Louisiana State University's Clinical Psychology program and the Kennedy Krieger Institute, amongst other waypoints. 

In this episode, we discussed how she got into working with individuals with Pediatric Feeding Disorders, what are the diagnostic criteria for this repertoire, what we know what works for PDFs, the difference between picky eaters and individuals with PFDs, the importance of taking a multidisciplinary approach to treatment, and much more!

This is a topic I'm not terribly familiar with, so I learned a ton. If you have the same reaction to this podcast, please share it with friends and colleagues!

Here are some of the resources we discussed:

This podcast is brought to you buy:

Abaspeech.org - the brainchild of Session 203 guest, Rose Griffin, is giving listeners a 30% discount on all of her courses which include, The Advanced Language Learner, Help Me Find My Voice, and Start Communicating Today. The offer is valid through December 1st, 2022. Go to abaspeech.org, check out the ‘courses’ link, and use the promo code, aba30, at checkout.

The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.

 HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.

Nov 1, 2022

After a long hiatus, Dr. Matt Brodhead returns to Behavioral Observations. In this episode, we discuss the use of punishment in the context of creating effective, ethical behavioral interventions. 

Of course, pursuant to the Behavior Analysis Certification Board's Ethics Code for Behavior Analysts, punishment should only be considered, "only after demonstrating that desired results have not been obtained using less intrusive means, or when it is determined by an existing intervention team that the risk of harm to the client outweighs the risk associated with the behavior-change intervention" (Code Element 2.15, page 12). 

So Matt and I talked about what this means in practice, the role of coercive or aversive events in everyday life, weighing the pros and cons of treatment choices, and much more. 

As we state in the first few minutes of the show, we made the editorial decision not to discuss the ABAI Task Force report on Contingent Electric Skin Shock. It's not that we don't have opinions on this topic; rest assured, we certainly do. But we felt like it would be more helpful for practitioners to hear Matt's thoughts on things like response cost, time-out, and so forth, as these are procedures that are more likely to be used by "everyday" practitioners. 

We also meandered into a few other topics, like the necessity of teaching cooperation and compliance under certain stimulus conditions, the utility or role of descriptive assessments vs. analog functional analyses, as well as other digressions. 

On a stylistic note, because Matt and I have gotten to know each other pretty well, this is an even more conversational episode that usual (versus one that is a series of questions and answers), with the attendant joking around that we usually engage in.

If you're interested in Matt's work, go over to his website, betteraba.com, and pick up a copy of his excellent workbook, Behavioral Systems Analysis and Ethical Behavior. It's a bargain at $25 bucks... and remember, the holidays are right around the corner 😉 Matt is also available for workshops and consultations, and you can reach him through the same website

And while I'm plugging Matt's stuff, the popular text book he co-authored with Drs. David Cox and Shawn Quigley, is out in its second edition (disclosure: Amazon Associates Link).

Other resources we discussed:

This podcast is brought to you with the generous support of:

  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
  • Abaspeech.org - the brainchild of Session 203 guest, Rose Griffin, is giving listeners a 30% discount on all of her courses which include, The Advanced Language Learner, Help Me Find My Voice, and Start Communicating Today. The offer is valid through December 1st, 2022. Go to abaspeech.org, check out the ‘courses’ link, and use the promo code, aba30, at checkout.
  • Behavior Development Solutions For BCBA and BCaBA candidates, they report a 98.5% pass rate for first-time exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses, and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to bds.com/bop for a special offer for podcast listeners! 
Oct 26, 2022

On November 26th, 2019, the first Inside JABA Series podcast was published. This series was the brainchild of Dr. Linda LeBlanc, who at the time was the incoming Editor in Chief, and I have to say, doing these shows has been a highlight of producing this podcast. 

As I remind people often, I'm not involved in the production or publication of Behavior Analytic research, so you can imagine how much I've learned about this process in making what is now 13 Inside JABA Series podcast episodes. 

At the same time, it's been an incredible privilege to share these shows - including the papers we've hi-lighted therein - with you.

At the time of this recording, Linda recently transitioned out of the role of Editor in Chief. This position is now filled by Dr. John Borrero, from the University of Maryland Baltimore County. 

As such, for the 13th installment in this series, the three of us got together to discuss a range of nerdy JABA topics, including how editors-in-chief are selected, what repertoires make for successful editors-in-chief, how to manage the review process, and more. 

We also talked about what makes a paper a "JABA paper." I think you might find some of Linda and John's thoughts on this surprising. Linda also shared a story on how she solved a specific clinical problem she encountered early on in her career by getting inspiration from the pages of JABA. 

Finally, we closed the show by looking back on some of Linda's accomplishments and discussed where John sees JABA moving forward. I won't spoil it here, but let's just say he has some really cool ideas, so please be sure to tune in for that segment.

Even if you're not involved in conducting and publishing research, I think you'll find the discussion of how our flagship journal works very interesting. 

Lastly, as I have expressed numerous times, I am profoundly grateful for this opportunity to work with the JABA team, and I look forward to working with John on future installments of the Inside JABA Series.

References mentioned in this episode:

Oct 18, 2022

In the world of Behavior Analysis, Rose Griffin is a unicorn of sorts, which is the unofficial mascot of those select few who hold both Speech Language Pathologist and Board Certified Behavior Analyst credentials. 

For 20 years, Rose supported students in public school settings, but these days, she is concentrating on taking all the knowledge she's acquired and sharing it in the form of podcasts, online trainings and courses, and much more. 

In this interview, Rose and I discuss how she got into speech therapy and then behavior analysis, the challenges and benefits of collaboration, the subtleties of joint attention that many behavior analysts miss in our training programs, her awesome podcast, the Autism Outreach Podcast, and advice for newly-minted BCBAs. 

Rose and I also spend a few minutes nerding out over our mutual podcasting hero, Pat Flynn. 

Here are the links to the things we discussed:

Rose was kind enough to provide listeners with a 30% discount on her courses through December 1st, 2022. These courses include: The Advanced Language Learner, Help Me Find My Voice, and Start Communicating Today. Just use the promo code, aba30, at checkout, and you'll be good to go.

Two footnotes to add:

First, I mistakenly noted in this interview that Rose was the first SLP/BCBA on the show. That honor goes to Dr. Barbara Esch, who appeared on a panel discussion for the Verbal Behavior Conference

Second, in the spirit of transparency, I want to note that ABASpeech.org will be sponsoring several upcoming podcast episodes. 

Speaking of sponsors, Session 203 is brought to you by the following:

  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
  • HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
Oct 5, 2022

After a brief hiatus, the Apollo Case Study Series returns to Behavioral Observations for its fifth installment. 

In this episode, Dr. Jim Moore shares his approach to modifying existing clinical programs that aren't making progress. More specifically, we talk about the temptation to go out and purchase the 'new shiny thing' (as in curriculum, assessment protocol, data collection systems, etc...), and what things to consider before deciding whether making such changes is an appropriate course of action. 

If you're a clinical director or supervisor, I'd say this is a must-listen episode. At one point, our internet connection phases out. Thankfully it passes quickly and the remaining conversation is pretty stable. 

If you're digging these conversations with Jim, hit him up on LinkedIn, or email him  (jim.moore at apollobehavior dot com). Also, many of you have reached out to see if Apollo is a good fit as an employer, and if you're wondering the same thing, you can talk to Jim about that too, or check out their openings in the Atlanta Metro area. 

Here are the links to what we discussed:

  • Previous ACSS shows.
  • Session 167 with Jim, "Making Science Part of Your Practice."
  • Fisher et al. (2014). Increasing the saliency of behavior-consequence relations for children with autism who exhibit persistent errors. 
  • Fisher, Kodak, and Moore (2007). Embedding an identity-matching task within a prompting hierarchy to facilitate acquisition of conditional discriminations in children with autism.
  • Cariveau et al. (2019). A Review of Error Correction Procedures during Instruction for Children with Developmental Disabilities.
  • Hayes et al. (1999). The Scientist Practitioner: Research and Accountability in the Age of Managed Care (2nd Edition) 2nd Edition (note: Amazon Associates link). 
  • EFL Methods of Alternative Speaking (Pat, you're welcome ;-).

I hope you enjoy this ad and intro-free episode, brought to you courtesy of Apollo Behavior! If you enjoy it, please share it with friends and colleagues!

Sep 30, 2022

Would you rather earn preferred items or get them for free? More technically stated, would you prefer response-contingent reinforcers over response-independent ones (and to further split hairs, if the preferred items are provided response-independently, are they really reinforcers?)?

It turns out that there has been some basic and applied research in this area, and some studies demonstrated participants' general preference for earning reinforcers as opposed to simply getting them for "free."

My guest for Session 201, Dr. Holly Gover, published a review and meta-analysis on this topic in a recent issue of The Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, called, "On the generality of preference for contingent reinforcement." 

In this episode, we discuss how she became interested in this topic, what motivated her to review this literature, what she learned from this process, and perhaps of most interest to you, what implications these findings have for practice. 

Towards the end of the conversation, we changed gears a bit and discussed Holly's work in the area of feeding challenges. She quickly reviewed what is currently known about the assessment and treatment of these problems, as well as the unique approach to resolving feeding issues that she has outlined. 

Holly will be presenting on this topic at the upcoming Stone Soup Conference on October 21st (disclosure: the Lake Ridge Community Support Services, host of the conference, is a BOP sponsor, and they are providing listeners with discounted registration when using the promo code, PODCAST).  

Lastly, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask - no, I mean beg you to to listen to Holly's advice for newly-minted BCBAs. I'm not kidding you that this has to be one of the best pieces of advice offered on this podcast. Please do yourself a favor and check it out and let me know if you agree. 

OK, here are some links:

In addition to the Stone Soup Conference, if you're interested in learning more about addressing feeding challenges, my colleague, Jen Farris, is putting together a 10-week mentoring cohort on this topic called Happy, Relaxed, and Eating. This is for a 10-week cohort consisting of 6, 2-hour LIVE virtual meetings and includes 12 CEs. There is also an option for no CEs at a discounted rate. And she is giving podcast listeners a 10% discount. So use the code BOP at checkout, or just tell Jen you heard about it on the podcast.

If you're looking for continuing education on a wide variety of topics, don't forget that many of your favorite Behavioral Observations shows are available for approved continuing education.

Sep 26, 2022

I’ve always maintained that this is a show that is all about the listeners and the guests, and so it is with that in mind that I’m thrilled to share the following interview segments that were nominated by so many of you. We did have many entries, so I couldn’t fit all of them in, but I genuinely appreciate all of you who took the time to write in and share your thoughts.

While I’m expressing gratitude here, I’d be remiss to not mention the support that I’ve received from podcast sponsors, especially the OG’s like Barb Voss at HRIC Recruiting and Behavior University. I’m also very thankful to all of you who have supported the show through Continuing Education sales, and Patreon memberships.

Together, we’ve created this medium that has been downloaded almost 3.6 million times in over 100 countries. As I’ve told many friends and colleagues, back when I was conceptualizing this show, I always knew there would be an audience for this type of content, but I had no idea that it would develop into what it is these days.

All of this to say that I’m extraordinarily thankful for all of you who have tuned in over the years. Thanks so much for letting Behavioral Observations into your commutes, your workouts, your laundry folding, your dog walking… or when or wherever else you take in the show. It’s been a privilege to be able to share these conversations with you, and I look forward to the next 200 episodes!

Here's what we have in store for you:

Lastly, huge thanks to Miguel Avila, Celia Heyman, Natalie Todd, Rob Harvey, Sarah DiGioia, Alesia Patterson, Alexa, as well as my colleague, Jen Farris (who also nominated some of the same segments from Session 63, which I forgot to mention in the broadcast). 

Sep 19, 2022

If your social media consumption is anything like mine, you've likely seen some feel-good stories in the media as of late that report on non-speaking students - generally students with Autism - who are graduating from college, giving valedictorian speeches, and so forth. 

Unfortunately, what's often underpinning many of these cases is a form of Facilitated Communication, or FC for short. What is FC? Glad you asked!

In today's episode, Dr. Jason Travers, Associate Professor at Temple University, joins me today to answer this very question (follow him on Twitter here). 

We covered the history of Facilitated Communication, the early scientific investigations that discredited this practice, FC's variants like the Rapid Prompting Method and Spelling to Communicate, where the practice of FC stands today, the harms that Facilitated Communication causes both users and caregivers, and how Behavior Analysts should both view and talk about these practices. 

Jason also provides the audience with a treasure trove of additional resources:

This podcast is brought to you by the following sponsors:

  • Supervision Sidekick. Supervision Sidekick is not only a comprehensive curriculum that helps you mentor the next generation of Behavior Analysts, it's also a community of like-minded supervisors. Check out their easy to use digital platform and comprehensive instructional materials at www.sidekicklearning.net. Also, if you sign up for a monthly or yearly program, use coupon code behavioralobservations and save 10% at checkout.
  • Behavior Development Solutions (aka “BDS”) is back to sponsor Behavioral Observations! I know BDS, because their modules were part of my own exam prep strategy when I took the BCBA exam back in 2002. Their modules are so thorough, you’ll feel confident at the Board Exam and, you’ll be well prepared for your career. For BCBA and BCaBA candidates, they report a 98.5% pass rate for first-time exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses, and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to bds.com/bop for a special offer for podcast listeners! 
  • The 2022 Stone Soup Conference! Great speakers, great cause, all for a great price. October 22nd (or later if you're busy that day). Come hear from Kirk Kirby, Drs. Camille Kolu, Nasiah Cirincione-Ulezi, Merrill Winston, Holly Gover, Tom Higbee, and Florence DiGennaro-Reed. Be sure to save at registration by using the promo code, PODCAST.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
Aug 31, 2022

If you're anywhere in the upper part of the northern hemisphere, you already know that fall is in the air. And with that comes the annual return of students to their community schools. 

As such, I thought it would be fun to bring on fellow New Hampshire behavior analyst, Elissa Johnson, to talk about the work she's doing in school settings. 

Elissa is the Director of Behavioral Health for Constellations Behavioral Services, which was founded right here in the Granite State. As an aside, long time listeners might remember my interview with Kim and Tim Heald, the founders of Constellations way back in Session 35

So in the episode, Elissa and I discuss how she got into the field, some common mentors we worked with, and how Constellations has transitioned into an ESOP or employee-owned company (a topic perhaps worthy of its own podcast for sure). 

However, we spent the bulk of our time discussing how to do good behavior analytic work in school settings, including implementing multi-tiered systems of support, such as PBIS. If you're new to these terms, don't worry, because we do go through and define all the acronyms that are so common in this type of work. 

As always, we end with some great advice for the newly-minted. And Elissa had some special words for those of you who are still in your coursework or otherwise working on becoming a newly-minted BCBA, so you'll want to stick around for that. 

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!

Stuff we mentioned in the show:

This session of Behavioral Observations is brought to you by the following:

  • Behavior Development Solutions (aka “BDS”) is back to sponsor Behavioral Observations! I know BDS, because their modules were part of my own exam prep strategy when I took the BCBA exam back in 2002. Their modules are so thorough, you’ll feel confident at the Board Exam and, you’ll be well prepared for your career. For BCBA and BCaBA candidates, they report a 98.5% pass rate for first-time exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses, and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to bds.com/bop for a special offer for podcast listeners! 
  • The 2022 Stone Soup Conference! Great speakers, great cause, all for a great price. October 22nd (or later if you're busy that day). Come hear from Kirk Kirby, Drs. Camille Kolu, Nasiah Cirincione-Ulezi, Merrill Winston, Holly Gover, Tom Higbee, and Florence DiGennaro-Reed. Be sure to save at registration by using the promo code, PODCAST.
  • Want to get a data-based picture of your physical activity, sleep habits, and more? I've been wearing the Whoop Strap for over two years now, and I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed getting quantitative information on all aspects of my health, including sleep analytics, heart rate, heart rate variability, calorie burn, exercise intensity, and Whoop's proprietary "strain" score. I could extol this neat device's virtues indefinitely to you, but instead, you can go check it out for yourself. To get your first month free, head over to behavioralobservations.com/whoop!
Aug 19, 2022

The full title of Merrill's talk is, "Whitesplaining Racism: Part Deux! Logic, Disproportionality, Avatars, Hate Crimes, and Uncomfortable Feelings."

As you'll learn in this episode, Bruce was in the audience for most of Merrill's talk, and was so enthused with it, he wanted him to review its main points here on Behavioral Observations. So we did just that, and Bruce was kind enough to join us as a discussant. 

But in the first segment of the show, we get to know a little about Bruce and his background. It turns out that he's had quite a bit of success reducing the overall rates of restraint in the school he worked in, so we spend a some time discussing how he was able to create that change. Bruce also closed out the show with some great advice for BCBAs, so you'll definitely want to stick around for that.

This episode is quite long, even by Behavioral Observations' standards, so I'm going to keep these opening comments short. For your convenience, I tracked down most of the links and references we discussed below:

Session 197 is brought to you by the following:

  • Supervision Sidekick. Supervision Sidekick is not only a comprehensive curriculum that helps you mentor the next generation of Behavior Analysts, it's also a community of like-minded supervisors. Check out their easy to use digital platform and comprehensive instructional materials at www.sidekicklearning.net. Also, if you sign up for a monthly or yearly program, use coupon code behavioralobservations and save 10% at checkout.
  • Behavior Development Solutions (aka “BDS”) is back to sponsor Behavioral Observations! I know BDS, because their modules were part of my own exam prep strategy when I took the BCBA exam back in 2002. Their modules are so thorough, you’ll feel confident at the Board Exam and, you’ll be well prepared for your career. For BCBA and BCaBA candidates, they report a 98.5% pass rate for first-time exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses, and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to bds.com/bop for a special offer for podcast listeners! 
  • The 2022 Stone Soup Conference! Great speakers, great cause, all for a great price. October 22nd (or later if you're busy that day). Come hear from Kirk Kirby, Drs. Camille Kolu, Nasiah Cirincione-Ulezi, Merrill Winston, Holly Gover, Tom Higbee, and Florence DiGennaro-Reed. Be sure to save at registration by using the promo code, PODCAST.
Aug 15, 2022

If you care about the future of ABA, it's important to understand not only its strengths, but also the myriad challenges the field faces. And to that end, I can't think of a more difficult challenge the field of Applied Behavior Analysis has right now than figuring out how to adequately measure outcome quality, and how this relates to funding ABA services. 

My guest for Session 196 is Amanda Ralston, and she's been thinking a lot about these issues for quite some time, and she was kind enough to spend some an hour with me to share her thoughts. 

As you'll learn in this episode, Mandy has been in the ABA field for over 20 years, and has experience founding and operating a large, statewide ABA provider, consulting with large multi-state ABA organizations, and much more. Mandy most recently founded NonBinary Solutions, which she talks about briefly.

We discuss the current model of insurance reimbursement, and contrast that with what's referred to as Value-Based Pay or Value-Based Care. These payment models differ considerably from the current Fee-For-Service arrangements that most listeners are likely familiar with. 

While Behavioral Observations is not a health-care policy podcast, I was encouraged to explore this topic by some friends and confidants, largely because this treatment model may be coming our way at some point. Given that Behavior Analysis is not a mature field as of 2022 - especially when it comes to funding our services - I thought it would be a good idea to explore the topic. 

If you experience this conversation the same way I did, I think you'll come to the realization that there are more questions than answers when it comes to Value-Based Care (many of which are articulated in this short video), so I may return to this topic from time to time as things develop. 

Here are some links to resources we discussed:

Session 196 is brought to you by the following:

  • The 2022 Stone Soup Conference! Great speakers, great cause, all for a great price. October 22nd (or later if you're busy that day). Come hear from Kirk Kirby, Drs. Camille Kolu, Nasiah Cirincione-Ulezi, Merrill Winston, Holly Gover, Tom Higbee, and Florence DiGennaro-Reed.
  • HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
Jul 28, 2022

In the fourth installment of the Apollo Case Study Series, Dr. Jim Moore and I are joined by his fellow Apollo clinician, Jennifer Freedman. Jen is a newer BCBA, and we spent most of this episode talking about the advanced training and professional development she's received while working in Apollo's unique clinical model. 

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | YouTube

In particular, here are just a few of the topics we covered in this wide-ranging conversation:

  • How Jennifer learned advanced skills in the staff development practices at Apollo
  • A review of the case of Jennifer's biggest success at Apollo
  • The importance and utility of using universal behavior management protocols
  • How Jennifer learned to use Relational Frame Theory concepts in her practice
  • How to help learners who hit seemingly have hit developmental plateaus
  • The role that various assessment and curricula have at Apollo (PEAK, EFL, VB-MAPP, etc...)
  • How to communicate successful outcomes to funding sources
  • How Jennifer learned to incorporate ACTraining in clinical practice
  • Ways in which the clinical approach at Apollo is responsive to many current critiques of ABA
  • Jim's critique of current social skills training approaches, and how he looks at it differentlyA Unique Approach for Staff Development

As always, huge thanks to Kim Dean, Jim Moore, and everyone else at Apollo Behavior for bringing this case study series to you commercial free. Please take a minute to check Apollo out, either at their website, or on social media. 

Resources mentioned in this podcast:

Jul 21, 2022

According to the Ethics Code for Behavior Analysts, Code Element 1.07 states: 

"Behavior analysts actively engage in professional development activities to acquire knowledge and skills related to cultural responsiveness and diversity," and that "they evaluate their own biases and ability to address the needs of individuals with diverse needs/ backgrounds..." 

In order to provide some direction in this effort, the guests for the 12th installment of the Inside JABA Series, Drs. Corina Jiminez-Gomez and Lauren Beaulieu have written a pair of well-researched and thoughtful papers that have been published in the spring and summer issues of JABA. These papers are:

And they were kind enough to join Dr. Jeff Tiger and me to discuss their scholarship in this area. In particular, we talked about how Lauren and Corina became interested in this topic, some basic terms - as well as misconceptions - in this area, the importance of self-assessment, what it's like to venture into unfamiliar literatures, the role of culturally responsive functional assessment practices, "western science" as a culture, mistakes we sometimes make as practitioners, social validity, and much more. 

This episode will be available for 1.5 Credits (Ethics) of BACB Continuing Education, and you can find out how to access this it here. Also, if you want to support the mission of JABA, please consider subscribing. As we mention in the episode, each JABA issue is about the size of a small textbook, and to my way of thinking, it represents an incredible value. If you have limited space on your bookshelf, you can purchase an online-access subscription too. 

As noted above, these papers are extremely well-researched, and Lauren and Corina mentioned tons of work in the literature during the podcast. I've done my best to capture as many of those references as possible below. But for more information, I recommend simply going to the reference sections of the papers themselves, as they represent a treasure-trove of additional reading for those who are interested.

Jul 13, 2022

If you've been tuning into one of the many Inside JABA Series I've done over the last few years, you're undoubtedly familiar with today's guest, Dr. Claire St. Peter. Claire is a Professor as well as the Director of Graduate Training at West Virginia University. 

According to her university bio, Claire's "primary research interest is the assessment and intervention of challenging behavior. She is particularly interested in the development of effective interventions for challenging behavior displayed in school contexts (including the effects of degraded integrity on intervention efficacy) and with the dissemination of behavioral approaches to caregivers (teachers, parents, etc.)."

And we do get to this very important topic of supporting typically developing individuals with behavior problems in school settings... but we get there in a roundabout way. 

Before getting there, we talk about how she got into behavior analysis, and we spent a little more time on this than usual, because as it happens, Claire was doing her graduate training at The University of Florida at a time when many other prominent researchers and practitioners in Behavior Analysis were going through that program. I won't spoil the story here, but it's worth checking out because in my opinion it provides an interesting window into the development of an incredibly productive cohort of people. 

We then transition into a primer of sorts in what's known as the "Constructional Approach" to behavioral treatment, intervention, and so forth. This approach was first described by Dr. Israel Goldiamond, and I highly recommend reading his seminal paper on this topic that was published in 1974. This topic has been getting a lot of attention in our field as of late, and I was thrilled to have Claire walk us through the basics of this perspective. 

Towards the end of the podcast, Claire shares a fascinating case study in which she and her colleagues used this constructional approach to develop a novel behavioral intervention for a child who was exhibiting behavior problems in a school setting. 

Again, if you're familiar with Claire's contributions to the Inside JABA Series, you know she loves a good soapbox, and in keeping with that, she offers some great advice for the newly minted at the close of the show. 

Lastly, I don't want to forget to mention that Claire is the Editor in Chief of the journal, Education and Treatment of Children, which I think we mention briefly. There's a lot of good work being published there, so check it out if you get a chance. Also, Claire has made significant contributions in the area of treatment integrity (aka procedural fidelity), and I look forward to having her back on the show for a deep dive into that important topic. 

Here are links to some of the resources we mentioned:

Session 193 is brought to you by the following:

  • Supervision Sidekick. Supervision Sidekick is not only a comprehensive curriculum that helps you mentor the next generation of Behavior Analysts, it's also a community of like-minded supervisors. Check out their easy to use digital platform and comprehensive instructional materials at www.sidekicklearning.net. Also, if you sign up for a monthly or yearly program, use coupon code behavioralobservations and save 10% at checkout.
  • HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
Jun 30, 2022

Dr. Jim Moore returns in the third installment of the increasingly popular Apollo Case Study Series (which by the way, is also Session 192). 

In this episode, we cover quite a lot of ground, such as:

  • Jim and his team's practical approach for language intervention
  • How Jim encountered Relational Frame Theory by accident
  • How rigid language repertoires can contribute to problem behavior
  • How one does not need to be dogmatic as it relates to specific camps (i.e., Verbal Behavior vs. RFT; Isolated FA's vs. Synthesized ones, etc...)
  • The "heaviness" of Megadeath and Metallica 
  • Deriving or Bi-Directional Naming?
  • Multiple Exemplar Training
  • Is PEAK synonymous with RFT?
  • When Jim uses the VB-MAPP and/or the Essential for Living 
  • The Verbal Behavior Conference 
  • Apollo CSS 2, CSS 1 

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!

And by the way, this episode is presented to you ad-free by Apollo Behavior. To learn more about them, check out their website, Facebook page, and LinkedIn profile

Jun 16, 2022

Why do people lie? It's an age-old question that's been asked for perhaps as long as our species has had verbal capabilities. 

In this episode, Dr. Corey Stocco from The University of The Pacific joins me to discuss the existing scholarship in this area, as more specifically, the work that he and his colleagues have done in this area. Specifically, we walk through a recent paper that was published in Behavioral Interventions, Further Evaluation of Contingencies on Lying About Homework Completion. 

Regarding this paper, we got way into the weeds in terms of how he recruited participants, the data that they had to leave out for space considerations, what they learned from this work, and where they want to go next in looking into the lying/truth-telling dynamic. 

We even talked about how Kevin Luczynski's kid earned reinforcement for peeing on his floor. 

As always, Corey closes out the show with some great advice for the newly minted!

Lastly, on a housekeeping note, if I sounded more nasally than usual, your ears are working correctly. I was battling a cold during the interview, and I hope it wasn't too distracting for the purposes of this interview. 

This episode of Behavioral Observations is brought to you by:

  • Behavior Development Solutions (aka “BDS”) is back to sponsor Behavioral Observations! I know BDS, because their modules were part of my own exam prep strategy when I took the BCBA exam back in 2002. Their modules are so thorough, you’ll feel confident at the Board Exam and, you’ll be well prepared for your career. For BCBA and BCaBA candidates, they report a 98.5% pass rate for first-time exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses, and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to bds.com/bop for a special offer for podcast listeners! 
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
  • Do you need CEUs? Do you want to learn while you're on the go? Check out the podcasts that are available for BACB Continuing Education. Learn about Functional Assessment, Ethics, Supervision, and lots more from your favorite Behavioral Observations guests!
Jun 3, 2022

Have you ever felt the thrill of rolling a 20-sided die? If you're in the general demographic of a Behavioral Observations listener, I'd guess probably not. However, it may not surprise you to learn that being the cosmically uncoordinated and socially challenged kid of the 80s, I certainly have. 

Which is why I jumped at the chance to speak with Session 190 guest, Rob Harvey, about how he uses role-playing games, like Dungeons and Dragons (D&D for short), to teach social skills to his clients. 

If you're not familiar with D&D, don't worry. We go over what that is in this podcast. Rob also goes on to explain that by playing these games, clients get to practice skills like speech prosody, turn taking, teamwork, conflict resolution, perspective taking, and so much more. So even if you are not interested in role-playing games in principle, you might want to check this show out nonetheless because of the benefits it may have for the people you work with. 

I would also offer that this type of activity seems like an unexplored area for research. Rob shared some of the anecdotal outcomes he's seen in this podcast, and it just made me think of how great it would be to see if these findings could be scientifically investigated. As far as numbers go, Rob has some data that suggest over 90% of his clients go on to play these games with peers outside of therapeutic hours, so it definitely seems like something is there. 

Here links to things we discussed:

Session 190 is brought to you with support from:

  • HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
  • Lastly, need CEUs on the go? Check out the podcasts that are available for BACB Continuing Education.
May 19, 2022

Oh boy, as the kids these days say, this show is a straight up banger. Dr. Jim Moore joins me again in our second installment in the Apollo Case Study Series, where we go deep into all things functional assessment. 

Right out of the gate, I want to note that we do spend time reviewing both functional analysis and treatment data of clients that Jim has worked with in the past. We do the best we can to narrate the these data, but you're going to want to go to the show notes of the episode to see what we're talking about in order to get the most out of the discussion. 

OK, in this episode, we discuss the following:

  • How much evidence does one need in order to move forward with a behavioral intervention.
  • How to assess the confidence in your functional assessment interview, and get the most out of these interactions with caregivers.
  • How to train staff to be great interviewers.
  • Treatment decisions based on functional assessment outcomes.
  • When to use Isolated vs. Synthesized contingencies.
  • How the staff at Apollo are mentored and supported in these functional assessment and treatment strategies.

This list could actually go on and on (including a sidebar about values-based care - a topic I'd like to return to at some point), so I encourage you to listen to the episode all the way through. For example, in the last moments of the show, we discussed how to navigate some of the quasi-tribal verbal behavior that comes with the functional analysis territory. You definitely don't want to miss that. 

Here are some links to resources we discussed in this episode:

May 12, 2022
This was a fun one for sure. In Session 188, I chatted with Drs. Jill Dardig and Bill Heward about a whole host of topics, including their new book, Let's Make a Contract: A positive way to change your child's behavior

In this conversation, we covered:

  • How Jill and Bill discovered Behavior Analysis, especially at a time when it wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now.
  • How they of course met each other (yes, there is a love story here).
  • Why they wrote an earlier iteration of this book titled, Sign Here: A contracting book for children and their parents.
  • The success Jill and Bill had in getting their works translated in various languages, and distributed to countries across the globe.
  • The power of storytelling.
  • The basics of behavioral contracting. 
  • Special circumstances that make contracting challenging, and what to do about them.
  • What to make of the "open economy" of today's screen-based reinforcers.
  • Directions for future research in this area.
  • Advice for the newly minted.
  • Their hopes for the future of ABA. 

This bullet list of course could go on and on. There are so many storylines in this conversation, from the history of ABA, to dissemination across cultures and languages, to the power of storytelling, to parenting, and so much more. I think there is something in this episode for everyone (note: we get to the actual mechanics of behavioral contracting about 1/2 to 2/3 the way into the conversation). Bill and Jill more generally offer some great parenting strategies in their description of the contracting process.

We discussed some of the following resources in this episode:

Session 188 is brought to you with support from:

  • HRIC Recruiting. Barb Voss has been placing BCBAs in permanent positions throughout the US for just about a decade, and has been in the business more generally for 30 years. When you work with HRIC, you work directly with Barb, thereby accessing highly personalized service. So if you're about to graduate, you're looking for a change of pace, or you just want to know if the grass really is greener on the other side, head over to HRIColorado.com to schedule a confidential chat right away.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations.
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.

Also:

  • Check out the BOP Patreon Tiers if you want an ad-free feed that includes occasional bonus content!
  • Need CEUs on the go? Check out the podcasts that are available for BACB Continuing Education.
May 5, 2022

In Session 187, Steve Ward joins me to discuss how to help individuals - in particular, individuals with severely limited communicated repertoires - who demonstrate challenging repertoires that are colloquially referred to as Anxiety. 

Given that tortured sentence, you can probably already imagine that in this episode, we discuss how Steve conceptualizes what exactly Anxiety is, especially in populations who cannot verbally report on their private verbal behavior. More importantly, we discuss how he developed what he calls the "calm counts" procedure, and review a case study of this intervention that he recently published. 

Here are the resources we discussed in this podcast:

This session is brought to you with support from:

  • Behavior Development Solutions (aka “BDS”) is back to sponsor Behavioral Observations! I know BDS, because their modules were part of my own exam prep strategy when I took the BCBA exam back in 2002. Their modules are so thorough, you’ll feel confident at the Board Exam and, you’ll be well prepared for your career. It's the premier exam-prep and curriculum supplement for BCBA and BCaBA candidates with a 98.5% pass rate for first-time BCBA exam takers… plus a money-back guarantee! They also have solutions for RBT aspirants, plus CE courses and live webinars (most of which are free for anyone to attend). To learn more, head over to "bds.com forward-slash "B O P"  for a special offer! 
  • The University of Cincinnati Online. UC Online designed a Master of Education in Behavior Analysis program that is 100% online and asynchronous, meaning you log on when it works for you. Want to learn more? Go to online.uc.edu and click the “request info” button.
  • Pick up some CEUs while you listen to Behavioral Observations! Click here to see the various ACE events on topics like Functional Assessment, Trauma-Informed Behavior Analysis, ACT, and much more!
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